The Cereal Entrepreneur
Leo Scott Smith is the founder of Tended, a safety-tech startup who have just launched a social-distancing solution for those working in construction. Using wearables, artificial intelligence and other emerging technologies, they help detect and prevent accidents for both businesses and consumers.
Shifting focus to the COVID-19 outbreak, they are creating 'Minimum Separation Distance' technology, and it works by automatically notifying workers if they come within a minimum distance of each other.
Anna Flockett0:01
Cereal entrepreneur.
Hello and welcome to startup magazine, Podcast Series serial entrepreneur. My name is Anna Flockett. And I'm your host. And today we are joined by Leo Scott Smith, CEO and founder of tended safety tech startup who have just launched a wearable social distancing technology for those working in construction, manufacturing, infrastructure and logistics through to IoT and AI. Leo, first of all, thank you so much for being on the show today. How are you doing?
Unknown Speaker0:31
So pleasure? Thank you for having me really well, surprisingly, a bit tired to say the least. I think that one of the downsides from working from home and also things growing at a rate that we hadn't expected is the effect of burnout. It's something that gets brought up quite regularly in our company, all hands. So definitely feeling that other than that, really good. Thank you.
Anna Flockett0:50
Okay, good. So I thought to start with, you could tell our listeners a little bit more about Tended what you guys do and kind of where the idea came from. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker0:58
Cool. So Tended is a tech startup we're based out of Lincoln. So one of the few not based in London. It's rare. I think we're one of about four tech companies in Lincoln. But we are about two and a half years old. We've got a team of 30 people, and we create wearable devices, which are used to detect and prevent accidents in the workplace. Now 10 it was started, it was an idea that I had bought a need and a problem that I faced myself. So my backgrounds actually in third world disaster zones and working in charity, and I was in Nepal, both before and after the 2015 earthquakes because we had schools out there that we provided education to underprivileged children, and during this time, I was constantly faced with different dangers. So I had aftershocks landslides, I even got ambushed once. So these really challenging scenarios and I was often with people that didn't speak very good English, or they, you know, they didn't have access to smartphones and this sort of realisation came to my head and said, Well, what would happen in the event that I was involved in the unthinkable, you know, I was ambushed or I was swept off a cliff. And nobody was there to call for help. So I kind of started looking for solutions on the market and couldn't really find anything. And then very sort of, similarly, my mom was involved in an accident or own. And luckily, she wasn't seriously injured. But you know, it could have been so much worse. So this, this idea just sort of really started to bubble and reinforce inside of me. And I said, Well, what can I do? And I was looking for solutions. And I put together a business plan at the age of I think I was probably 20 or 21. At the time, had no idea about technology. I only just grasp it now and definitely not a techie. And I went to a local university with some business cards that just said tended, we're hiring and handed them out to a load of grads at the undergrad fair. And I was like, hey, do you want to come work for us, like making us out to be this really cool, exciting company and then interviewed a few people. I'd had businesses in the past so I kind of had a good grasp of what I needed to look for. And then I hired two people and kind of got everyone in a room and said like, this is what We want to do and it kind of just sort of went from there, we initially started out as a consumer product. So it's like sports people like active individuals, horse riders, that kind of stuff. But we started to take this sort of general pivot, you could say it was a slow pivot, it was over a period of about a year where we started to look at more commercially focused opportunities, because we had companies like Nestle and Rolls Royce reaching out to us saying, we see what you're doing with wearable technology. It's really cool and really applicable to our workspace, like can we use it for ourself and we saw an opportunity and took that, and, and yeah, it's we've kind of gone from strength strength since then. And we now have clients all over the country in a whole variety of different industries from construction and infrastructure and rail. And we're now not just working on detecting accidents, but also being able to prevent them as well with our wearable technology.
Anna Flockett3:50
That's really cool. And I know you said obviously, you're not really a techie. But could you kind of explain like how the the wearables work and like what tech you kind of use?
Unknown Speaker4:00
Of course, yeah, so everything that we've built is totally proprietary, which is probably why we've got such a large team, about 16 of our team today are engineers or product designers. And we have wearable devices, which have a combination combination of different sensors in them. And they constantly monitor the user's movements. And we've got trends, which have been sort of driven from machine learning algorithms, which allow us to detect what a abnormality would look like. So this could be like impact, weightlessness, inertia. And then in the event that we pick up on one of these abnormalities, the device will vibrate on their wrist and ask them if they're safe. And then if they're not, it will then send out an alert, which will then trigger calls, text messages and emails to their sort of line manager to tell them that one of their employees could be in danger. And then it also has their location attached to that as well as the health information and things. And that's like our core accident detection technology, but we're now sort of building upon that and looking at accident prevention. So to do that, we're looking at flights Fatigue monitoring. So we use calculations from HSE on what activities an individual resource would be taken pine which would make them fatigued within their working environment. And then like collision avoidance, so detecting where employees are in relation to different bits of heavy machinery or trains, and then giving them instant feedback to allow them to be more aware of their surroundings to sort of avoid that human error element, which is often sort of the main cause of fatalities within the sort of working environment. I'd say that it's really as a company Our mission is to and you know, companies have, especially startups, there's this habit of them having these like big visions and missions that are like changing the world and, and I don't want to fall into that trap, but like our mission is to make the world a safer place with technology that empowers, inspires and saves lives, and we kind of really reinforce that through our technology and ensure that we are helping to make a difference through really cool Advanced Technology and helping save lives.
Anna Flockett6:02
No, it sounds like it sounds really amazing. And obviously, you kind of mentioned that you, you started out in the sports area and then got approached by these, like big companies. I guess you work across a number of industries. But do you have like a main industry that's kind of most popular with your products and your wearable?
Unknown Speaker6:18
Yeah. So I'd say that it's definitely in construction and rail as well. So they're, they're sort of two main players, because they're very high risk industries, and manufacturing and logistics, as well as quite a large one. But we've got clients in and i'll come on to this a bit more with our COVID solution, but clients that you would have never even imagined reaching out to us that are saying, oh, we're really interested in your technology, like museums and stuff. So but again, I'll come on to that a little bit later.
Anna Flockett6:47
Really cool. And before we get on to your amazing COVID solution, what kind of challenges have you faced along the way kind of pre COVID so in there, kind of two and a half journey leading up to now have you faced any major challenges as a team or as a founder.
Unknown Speaker7:01
Yeah, I think being a founder is always a very long and hard journey, people will often reiterate this new thing. It's not gonna be that hard. But I think it is, in a lot of circumstances. I think sort of going back, what are some of the big moments that I look back on that made me go, Oh, God, how do I how do I, how do I live through that? I mean, funding is a big one. Funding is always a big one, especially because I am a sole founder, I don't have much experience in technology, or I didn't at least, it means that that's always been a bit of a struggle. We're also you know, being based out of the London or the Manchester tech ecosystems is also really, really tricky to secure funding. We have been quite lucky in that area. I say lucky, you know, a lot of hard work. So we've had about almost 2 million pounds of funding to date. So I funded the business for the first six months by that point, we had about eight people with my own money and there was one scenario where I was waiting for some funding to come Going through debt finance, and it didn't come in and we had an employee salaries to pay. And I ended up in a position I was also in Singapore at the time with a potential client. And I ended up in a scenario where I was like, I need to pay them something. So I drew all of the money that I had left in my own personal bank account out and put it into the business bank accounts, split it across people, and then I didn't really realise what I was doing. I was doing it on the cuff and I ended up in Singapore on my own with no money whatsoever, because I just paid all my staff and I was like, Oh, fuck, like, what am I gonna do? Like, how am I gonna eat? And I did the whole and I'm sure that a lot of families have probably done this at some point. Bringing the parents are going I'm really sorry, I fucked up like, I need a bit of money. And so it was like I was 16. Again, basically. So that was like a tough one. I mean, we've also had like, you know, our big wins and things as well. We one of the first sort of things that really helps to catalyst our funding journey was we we put an innovate UK applique And just on the cuff, we did it in like two days. And we'll, we'll just see we'll get our feedback. And then we got an email be like, Oh, yeah, we've awarded you a half a million pound innovate UK grant. And we're like, oh, like shit, this is great. Like, we weren't expecting that. And then as a result of that, it meant that we catalyst our the rest of our funding group. And I think that really helped us secure that journey that we've been on.
Anna Flockett9:20
Definitely. And obviously talking about funding. You've mentioned a few, but like, how have you found funding? What different types of funding Have you been through?
Unknown Speaker9:28
So we've done the whole sort of traditional route, we haven't been one of those lucky startups that goes out and does a seed round of 4 million pounds two months after being founded because they've got an ex founder from whatever large ag required tech company in their founding team. So you know, family and friends, a lot of debt capital, which was from myself personally to begin with, and then we went through an angel investor round got some really great people that brought heaps of experience within the industries that we're working within really helped us to reinforce that commercial offering that we That's now such a core part of our business. And then we went through a venture funding round that was about a year and a half in. And then we sort of just continued from there with we've recently just had another venture funding round well, so as I said, we were in the midst of a funding round where we lost about half of it, and we got taken off the table because it was right. A lot of our funding comes from is funds, and bcts. And as a result of that, we were working towards the end of March of the tax year. And then obviously, everything happened sort of mid March. And we ended up in a position where quite a lot of it sort of came off the table. So we've had to be a bit strategic about where money's being spent, you know, we we ended up stripping a lot of our marketing back and really focusing on product development rather than new sales until obviously, everything else sort of come up and happens. So yeah, it's definitely been a challenge. But I think that once and this kind of comes on to a point, which I'm sure you'll talk about later on, which is like what the advice that you'd give to founders is that it's always really tough until you get to that that venture funding round and then once you once you've got over that point is still Very tough, but you, you have some people that really support your vision, you have that validation behind you as a company, which helps to fuel those future funding rounds. And in the event that things don't go quite as planned, which they never do, like, if you have a if you look at any person's business model and say what it's gonna look like, in three years, they'll never meet those targets, or it's very unlikely at least they're with you when things get a bit tough, which is always good.
Anna Flockett11:24
Yeah, definitely. And obviously talking about like your funding that you kind of lost and then you guys have kind of pivoted Haven't you in this whole COVID space. And you've been doing quite a lot. Tell us a bit about the new wearable with social distance in technology that you've really,
Unknown Speaker11:40
so yeah, this is an interesting one. So as I said, like with our funding, coming off the table and all capital basically drying up within not just Europe, but the world. I guess. We had to make this tough decision. You know, we went from having board meetings once every two months to once every two weeks and sort of saying going on and constantly evaluating the situation and looking into the government support packages that are an offer. And as I'm sure you've probably discussed with other entrepreneurs that really not great at the moment. So really the only one that you can kind of take advantage of is the furloughing scheme. And that was really something that we didn't want to do as a company, but we were having to explore it as an option. And then we got a call from one of our largest prospective clients, and they said, Look, we've got this big problem at the moment, very traditional industry and a lot of their staff might not necessarily follow the rules, should you say with social distancing as well, and they said, we can't really be seem to be sending people back to work, but it's costing us in excess of 50 million pounds every week in delayed projects and lost work time. And that even includes the government furloughing scheme. So if you then look at the cost, it's costing the government it's probably 70 million pounds a week and they said like, what can you do? Is there any way that your wearable technology can help to sort of support this social distancing i rang one of our lead engineers engineers. And I said, Look, they put this problem to us. It's a massive opportunity, can we solve it? And he said, Well, how quickly does it need to happen? In about two weeks he went, that's fucking impossible. Like, you can't possibly commit us to that, like the complexities in, in the technology that we have to create, not just detect the proximity between two people. But to do that accurately, because it's very similar to the saying, you keep hearing from the government about the testing issues, which is that it's better to have a no test at all than it is to have a bad test. And it's very similar with this and said, like, we can't do that. So I kind of, Okay fine, and then went away. And as entrepreneurs do sat on my laptop in my bed until probably two 3am looking through, or sifting the internet for possible options and solutions that could help towards this sort of this solution that we could very easily sort of fit into our into our product. And then we previously researched some technology called ultra wideband which is In the simplest of ways, it uses something called time of flight to measure the signal to measure the distance between two devices, or post a signal strength, which is what you'd see in like Bluetooth or Wi Fi. So it's very similar to like a sonar system in a submarine. So it'll send out a signal and then it wait for that to come back and measure the time between the two in milliseconds. And as a result, you can get this sub 10 centimetre accuracy between the distance between two devices. So we researched this previously for our collision avoidance system between vehicles and moving individuals. And we said, well, you know, maybe we can revisit this. So I ran a lead engineer and said, Look, we're gonna do this, um, I think we should spend some money on it. And, you know, bearing in mind that we just have a funding round fall through. We're already like, cash reserves as it is, and I'm going yeah, we're going to spend like, way more and like, decrease our runway by half. So we can bring this out and everyone's going, Oh, you sure you want to do this? And I'm gonna get It's fine. It's fine. And it all looked a bit touch and go. And we entered into the government funding round for innovate UK for the COVID solution, which they still haven't announced yet. It's like two weeks overdue now, and we're like, oh, well, maybe we'll get 50 grand, and it should be alright. So we've committed to all of this. And then we have there's like eight and a half thousand applicants, and they can only afford 400. Like, we totally screwed ourselves over. We spent loads of money. And we then got a bit further into it. We had a few more clients expressing an interest and we said, well, we've we've got to start doing a press release and put it out. So this Wednesday, last week, so not even seven days ago, we put a press release out and said like, this is what we're doing. We did the marketing around it. And you know, bearing in mind, we've already developed this solution now and we're wanting to get it deployed. And it's safe to say that like, it has been something that we've never seen before our head of business development, who's been with us for a year here's like I've seen more leads in one day than I've seen throughout the whole year of us of me working here at one point because our lead system is linked into our Slack channel. They were coming through like every channel minutes and they're like big companies as well. So it's like BA systems, Network Rail Rolls Royce and all these huge companies and saying like, we're desperate for this solution to the point where one of the companies we had was big engineering company in Singapore for 300,000 devices, which is about 20 million pounds in annual recurring revenue, which, you know, we were planning to have like 700 grand revenue this year. And now we're looking at this, this huge potential opportunity. So yeah, it's been interesting but it's got to the point now where just before I jumped on this call, I've got off a board meeting where we've had to agree to sign off on on hiring about eight new people just so we can keep up with the scaling demand that we're now seeing. So it's definitely interesting. You know, it's we've where we've managed to pivot I guess you could say it's definitely something that we're concerned around a little bit though because it almost looks as it on the face of it. It makes it look like we're trying to profiteer off like really Tough shit situation that the world's going through. But then if you always sort of look back to that mission statement I talked about about us helping to improve safety within the workplace, it really aligned so closely with that, that it would have been a no brainer for us to not offer that.
Anna Flockett17:14
I mean, it sounds like your solution can help so many companies kind of get back to work and start moving things along again. So it's your one of the pieces of the puzzle, on the way out of Corona kind of like getting the economy without moving. You know, on the upside See, I don't think you can look at it about your profit, and you're just doing something good to help. Like, that's your business at the end of the day.
Unknown Speaker17:38
Yes, yeah. And you know, it's helping to create new jobs. And like you said, it's helping to bring that economy back on on track. And it's not just this, this is the interesting thing that I sort of touched upon earlier. It's not just the industries that we previously worked in, like your your construction and your infrastructure, the leads that we've had coming in, and the inquiries that are totally mad, to be honest So we had one company that they provide a load of infrastructure for all the museums across the UK. And they're like, we want to bring people back into museums. And can we like provide your solutions to to people as they enter the museum and then it helps them to sort of be more aware of their surroundings. And then supermarkets for helping social distancing when people are in supermarkets and stopping people just coming right up next to you, which I experience every time I go to the supermarket. I think the weirdest one is I mean, it's not weird. It's interesting, but um, private schools. So there's 600,000 students in private education in the UK, and you know, their parents are all paying these very significant fees for them to go to these schools and they can't return back to school. So they're being these schools are basically being pressured to refund these fees. But that's their their parents still want their kids to go to school because they want them to get this great education. So they say, Well, can we sort of support social distancing through your technology and like gamify the idea of social Distance things are like, kids are like competing with their friends to see who can stay the furthest away from people and like this whole crazy sort of ideas that are coming about. And it's really interesting. But as we've now gotten to this route of saying, Well, how do we, how do we clarify which leads we want to go after? Because we can't, we can't chase them all. So we're having to, you know, block out leads from different countries and really disappointingly, you know, SMEs, that was once one of our large target markets, we now would say, We're really sorry, we just can't facilitate SMEs because we don't have the bandwidth.
Anna Flockett19:33
Yeah, definitely. And I guess this is just a little kind of more of a personal question. It seems that you kind of took the risk with this, obviously, as the founder is your decision and obviously you went with it. Would you say that you're a risk taker? Would you say that normally they pay off because this could be the biggest risk that's ever paid off for you today?
Unknown Speaker19:52
I think it took to be an entrepreneur, you've got to be a risk taker. Definitely. I think I'm definitely a fan of taking risks, to be honest, keeps me on my toes. The way that I because this isn't a question that you know, it's just coming from you. It's a board level question where they've been saying to us, like, be sure that you want to do this, that it's hundreds of thousands of pounds, we're having to commit to make this happen so quickly. And you know, that's eating into our runway, if none of these contracts come off, and the way that I described it to them was when you first invested in this business, it was a risk, and it was always going to be a risk. Whilst this is a risk, it's an educated risk, because we've got so many inquiries coming in. And if we weren't to sort of take it with both hands and run full power and see what we can achieve, we'd be a bit naive. Now, hopefully, I won't be saying that in six months after our runways come to the end, and no contracts will come off. And hopefully I'll be able to prove my investors and my board, right. But we'll say one of the fun traits of having a board and investors.
Anna Flockett20:48
Definitely is going back to the new product I read. It also has a useful feature in the fact that it has the ability to trace contact back. Can you tell us a little bit more about this feature.
Unknown Speaker20:58
So obviously But you know, there's been so much in the news about the NHS apps and the privacy implications with that. And also the, the issues that come in are associated with Bluetooth and proximity tracking. So what we're kind of offering as a solution is we can work out how long people have been in contact with other individuals. And this is really key because if you look at the NHS app, especially if it's Bluetooth bass, I could walk past someone's house on my street, and it would say that I've been in contact with them even though they were in their house. And even if I was just in contact for a second, and then effectively, I'm at risk of COVID-19. And I am going to have to save isolate for seven days. Now that brings so many complexities around the whole issue of the economy and the implications it's going to have because effectively, everyone's just gonna be locked down again. So I should say it's a great solution in the purpose of mass rollout because you can't provide every single person in the UK with an ultra wideband device. Just be too expensive and not practical, but for When you're looking from a workplace scenario, the last thing that you want is one person in your workplace to be confirmed as COVID-19 positive. And then because of the nature of how the Bluetooth proximity tracking works, it would effectively have this mass effect across your whole workforce. And just one or two cases within a workplace could mean that your whole company has to go into lockdown. So with our technology, what we're doing is we're monitoring the time that people have been exposed. So if someone's just walking past for like a second, and we're working with one of the big clothing manufacturers in their warehouses, and they said, like, we're not designed for social distancing are the tracks in between the two in between two shelvings are less than two metres. So people are going to have to walk past each other, but one person will be facing one way and the other will be the other so it's quite safe so we can track that sort of time. So it'll be like seconds rather than minutes, but also to a really high accuracy as well. So it means that it's almost like in the simplest way the NHS sort of concept racing out but honestly royde in a much more effective manner. And it just helps to mitigate a lot of that risk for your workplace. But it also helps with the compliance level as well, because it means that if an employer, or if an employee says that, you know, they've come down with COVID-19, you can see who they've been in contact with, for what time and then you can also see like, so that's tier one. And then you can see tier two, which is the people that they've also been in contact with. So you can really help to understand which areas of your workforce are most at risk.
Anna Flockett23:25
Sounds amazing. And obviously, I know you said, your your death keeps getting deployed, and you've done so much amazing work in such a short space of time. Do you have a timeframe of when it might be deployed to your customers?
Unknown Speaker23:37
So next week, our first product hardware is hard. Not so you know, the common expression and it is it was our first product was horrible. We got delayed by nine months, I think, and it costs way more than expected, but we got there in the end, but we learned so much during that process, and we've channelled all of those learnings into this second product which has allowed us to bring what was an 18 month product cycle into about eight weeks. But a critical thing about that was as well is we've actually moved all of our manufacturing to the UK because whilst China is cheap, the lead times for that are a lot more complex. And there's also this huge risk, which was, were to place an order of 100, or 200,000 devices, which is like millions of pounds worth of stock. And then China goes into lockdown, which I saw a notification just this morning saying that testing 11 million people in whoo ha, then all of our stock is stuck in China, we've committed to it and then all of our contracts in the UK fall through because we can't deliver. And then all of a sudden, we're left with like a 5 million pound liability. So that's not only helped us to mitigate some of that risk, but it's also helped us with being able to speed that process up. We've got a really great partner. And now we can turn devices around in three weeks as opposed to eight weeks, which is critical in such a time sensitive sort of environment.
Anna Flockett24:57
Definitely and how I've kind of used Guys and your team had had to adapt to the current situation. I know you've adapted your products and you've kind of pivoted from your funding disaster thing around and now you're in like one of the best positions ever. But have you guys had to be in remote working and have you made major changes.
Unknown Speaker25:16
So we started remote working way before it was sort of asked or sort of made compulsory, we have about 30 or 40% of our staff that work remotely anyway, because being based in Lincoln, there's a very small talent pool, which meant that we naturally had to go outside of the county to to get the kind of talent that we were looking for. And as a result, it wasn't too much of a challenge for us. There was definitely learning curves. I think I would even go as far as saying that. It's been a really enjoyable experience. And I think that maybe we've even come a bit closer as a team because one of the complexities of sort of growth rate within in such a small city was that we were spaced across two different offices. And which meant that the communication between those two offices just wasn't there at some time. So, but now obviously everyone's on zoom. We're having different no pub pub quizzes on Friday. I'm actually hosting a virtual murder mystery. Yeah. So like, we've got all these really fun things going on. And it means everyone's communicating even better, I would say, one of the big sort of misconceptions, I think, and it was something that maybe even I felt a little bit was, if you've just got all your team, just straight out the office, like productivity is going to be hit massively. It was something that was also questioned to me by friends and family saying, like, Surely you're just you're gonna have issues are going to make sure people are working. But you know, we've got an amazing team. And if anything, I think that productivity has seen a huge increase. And I think that comes with its risks, though, with burnout and such forth. But yeah, it's gone really well. And I think the next challenge really is onboarding new staff members because as I said earlier, we were just about to bring on a lot of new new people. We brought someone on Last week, so our first sort of virtual onboarding experience, which was interesting button and just as effective, I think,
Anna Flockett27:07
Oh, good. And so that kind of leads me on to our next question perfectly. What do you guys have planned for the future? I guess you've answered it short term, but also short term and long term. And did you have plans set for the future, and then obviously, Corona came and kind of twisted them all around and changed your direction sort of thing.
Unknown Speaker27:25
It's hard to say that this is definitely going to be what's happened. But you know, I should imagine, even through the course of this podcast, we've probably had one or two quite large sort of inquiries come in. And this is the way that I put it to our team while I was trying to convince them to grow their teams by almost double was that we have the potential to speed up our roadmap for the next three years and do that in six months if we sort of take this opportunity with both hands. So really, as a company, what we're aiming to do is our vision for the future is to have really cool technology that the employees feel, you know, really engaged with. And they're, they're really on board with using and is helping to prevent accidents and fatalities within the workplace. It's very hard to track because it's very speculative with accidents, because you don't know that an accident is going to happen if it doesn't happen. But we'd really like to be in a position where we can we can track this data and be able to sort of add evidence and say, Well, we know that we've saved you know, X amount of fatalities or prevented X amount fatalities within this industry over the past year. And you can put a value on a life really, you know, you can you can throw however many however much VC funding or however large your team is or all your big IRR numbers, but like realistically, when you really boil it down, if you can say that you've saved someone's life that's worth way more than any kind of sort of numbers really, in my opinion, at least my VCs might say different.
Anna Flockett28:56
It's really shone through in this interview, they're like you have like a passion It's like, that's the purpose of you doing this not just to, you know, run a business and make loads of money that there was a reason behind it. And yes, it's really nice to see and it's really shone through. And my final question for you today, which you kind of have touched on, so, if you don't want to answer is fine. But do you have any advice for any other startups out there?
Unknown Speaker29:19
Persistence is a word that we use a lot in our company, it's fucking tough, like, don't get me wrong, but if you're persistent, and you work hard, and you've got that one clear vision, and that clear vision can't be to make money. And that is a big, big misconception. You know, you get a lot of entrepreneurs that are in it, and you're never going to achieve very well or much, at least in terms of happiness from from something like that, but persistence doing something that you really sort of believe in, but in terms of the current times that we're going through at the moment, whilst it's gonna be a recession, and it's going to be a really tough one. So many exciting big tech stories have come from recessions and it's a really exciting opportunity to to grasp and try and commercialise and utilise on So see if you can find those holes like we've done it and it's worked really well for us. So if you can pivot or adapt your business to what is potentially going to be the next 12 or 18 months, I would advise doing that.
Anna Flockett30:20
Theo, it's been amazing talking to you today. Thank you so much for being on the episode and good luck with everything. I'm excited to follow the journey of tended and see what happens for you guys short and long term.
Unknown Speaker 30:31
Thank you so much. I've really enjoyed it.
Anna Flockett30:35
Cereal entrepreneur